Date: Mon, 29 Nov 93 04:30:06 PST From: Advanced Amateur Radio Networking Group Errors-To: TCP-Group-Errors@UCSD.Edu Reply-To: TCP-Group@UCSD.Edu Precedence: Bulk Subject: TCP-Group Digest V93 #308 To: tcp-group-digest TCP-Group Digest Mon, 29 Nov 93 Volume 93 : Issue 308 Today's Topics: American Vulgar Slang IP in the open Send Replies or notes for publication to: . Subscription requests to . Problems you can't solve otherwise to brian@ucsd.edu. Archives of past issues of the TCP-Group Digest are available (by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives". We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official policies or positions of any party. Your mileage may vary. So there. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 28 Nov 93 21:52:28 CST From: jimh@kd4ldo.ampr.org (Jim Henderson) Subject: American Vulgar Slang To: tcpgroup@kd4ldo.ampr.org In message <9311251514.AA04793@sabea-oc.af.mil>, Steve Sampson writes: >James Wyatt KA5VJL writes: >> Brian! We just got over the fact that "some of us" have this sent over >> packet radio (or was that another list for nos? 8{) and you profane our >> netwaves with this (very accurate) observation. >Actually, you are responsible for editing all traffic that will go over ham >radio. If American "vulgar slang" which is considered offensive by Baptists >and/or child-proofed by the Feds exists in any message, then you must search >them out and put in [expletive deleted]. This is a problem that occurs on an >adult program that may be seen by children (Novices and codeless Techs). If that was _meant_ the way I read it, Steve, I severely resent that remark. US Part 97 clearly states that transmitting language that is considered obscene is strictly prohibited. Even I, a "codeless tech" (apparently a "child" in your eyes <*ahem*>) can see that such language is not allowed on the airwaves. Surely I don't have to quote regulations to you. :-) Of course, if I _have_ misunderstood, please feel free to clarify your intent via mail. I am certainly capable of understanding another point of view, and do keep an open mind... >> Could we consider putting a header at the front about refraining from >> language that disallows automagic routing via packet? (or RTTY? 8{) > >Here's one: > >"This program contains adult material. You are responsible for the transfer >onto regulated mediums." Actually, I've got a better idea. Why not use a little self-restraint? We're all intelligent people here; surely if we see something that upsets us, we can wait to respond to it until our heads have cleared and we have thought the situation through properly, and then write a coherent message that people don't have to worry about censoring. Every message I see that lowers the standards of amateur radio makes me wonder more and more about some of the people who got into the hobby in the first place; obviously, these people can take a test, but they have no ability to excersise a little self control. If this continues, many of us will have no choice but to stop reading this group, as not reading it is the _only_ method of control we have over what is transmitted on the air. One last request: can we _please_ return to some technical discussion? It seems to me the purpose of this group was to discuss technical matters - if I have misunderstood the basic intent of this group, _*please*_ let me know, and I'll do what I can to start an amateur-based group that _does_ discuss technical matters and avoids these holy wars. ---- Jim Henderson, KD4LDO/W0 [44.94.249.38] on 144.99 MHz Crystal, MN Internet: jimh@kd4ldo.ampr.org CIS: 71321,1461 Alt. Internet: hendersj@alpha.db.erau.edu "And now some news from some of the outlying regions of the Galaxy. A report out today from the western spiral arm says that the wheel is commercially unviable. . ." - Sub-ether news report ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1993 09:32:11 -0600 (CST) From: ssampson@sabea-oc.af.mil (Steve Sampson) Subject: IP in the open To: TCP-Group@UCSD.Edu > Can users of tcpip please explain why in the Rhine Mainz one sysop decides > that he will go against the use of tcpip in that location, I once ran into a similar problem. There was no way to get to Wichita Falls Texas except by ROSE. So I set up a VC path over ROSE to the TheNet in WF. As I was monitoring the performance (worked pretty neat) I noticed that Lawton Oklahoma was in a frenzy. The ham whos ROSE I was going through was astonished that someone would actually use Net/Rom over ROSE. Well I figure it's a network, so I was networking. Finally the link didn't work out that well and the Lawton guys mostly used the ROSE node for a digi rather than a network. But this did a couple things to increase my knowledge. 1. Digipeater sponsors are much like repeater sponsors. They operate in a clan with their own rules. They tolerate outsiders who visit, they don't like outsiders who use their system, or make them look like the country hicks they are. 2. VHF is for operator to operator communications. Do not use ANY VHF channel for networking. Since the majority of hams have a two-meter rig, they can easily destroy performance by their silly antics of beaconing, CW ID, and holding a voice QSO to see how much they can slow the packets down. 3. IP, ROSE and NETROM belong on UHF and higher. There should be an user port on VHF, but all networking should be hidden. If the networking is hidden, then the mental problems or religious zealots don't have anything to complain about. These nodes should be beam to beam, not omni affairs. Most hams only own an HF and VHF rig. 4. No matter how much you succeed, there will always be others who want to do it different. Just as you finish your wonderful network, and have all the mail flowing freely, someone will lose interest and take their ball home so you can't play anymore. It's probably best to remain in your sphere, and not free-load off of other clan repeaters. If you didn't invest in it, you shouldn't tell them how to use their own equipment. Packet people usually don't get together to work these things out, so you might try and invite them to lunch or dinner and hash it out. Maybe just a coffee with them and a give them a radio and TNC to install on their tower... --- Steve ------------------------------ Date: Mon Nov 29 01:35:20 EST 1993 From: postmaster@3445a.daytonoh.NCR.COM Received: by 3445a.DaytonOH.NCR.COM; 27 Nov 93 08:40:05 EST Received: by wtcp.DaytonOH.NCR.COM; 27 Nov 93 08:35:30 EST Received: by dayhub.DaytonOH.NCR.COM; 27 Nov 93 08:38:20 EST Received: from ncrgw2 by ncrhub1.NCR.COM id aj11260; 27 Nov 93 8:37 EST Received: by ncrgw2.NCR.COM; 27 Nov 93 08:35:10 EST Received: from localhost by ucsd.edu; id EAA18090 sendmail 8.6.4/UCSD-2.2-sun Sat, 27 Nov 1993 04:30:13 -0800 for tcp-digest-list Received: from localhost by ucsd.edu; id EAA18071 sendmail 8.6.4/UCSD-2.2-sun Sat, 27 Nov 1993 04:30:11 -0800 for tcp-group-ddist Message-Id: <199311271230.EAA18071@ucsd.edu> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 93 04:30:09 PST From: Advanced Amateur Radio Networking Group Errors-To: TCP-Group-Errors@UCSD.EDU Reply-To: TCP-Group@ucsd.edu Precedence: Bulk Subject: TCP-Group Digest V93 #307 To: tcp-group-digest@ucsd.edu TCP-Group Digest Sat, 27 Nov 93 Volume 93 : Issue 307 Today's Topics: An attitude problem in Germany about TCPIP Send Replies or notes for publication to: . Subscription requests to . Problems you can't solve otherwise to brian@ucsd.edu. Archives of past issues of the TCP-Group Digest are available (by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives". We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official policies or positions of any party. Your mileage may vary. So there. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 26 Nov 93 16:59:33 CET From: BARRY TITMARSH Subject: An attitude problem in Germany about TCPIP To: TCP-GROUP , Organization: Barry's Linux Box Darmstadt. Summary: use of tcpip Can users of tcpip please explain why in the Rhine Mainz one sysop decides that he will go against the use of tcpip in that location, well he is not the only one there are others in the Rhine Mainz. Below is a list of DB0xyz bbs that fully support the use of TCPIP you will note that NONE of these BBS's are in the Rhine Mainz area, So if a user of tcpip wants his smtp mail or nntp news, and lives in the Rhine Mainz. has to go to extream measures to fight off the BULL-SHIT that is constantly excreating from sysops of the Rhine Mainz digis. The only exception to the Rule is the SYSOP of DB0DA, who operates and does not care as to the mode of traffic obver the digi. same as can be said with the digi sysops in general in EU. AX25: DB0ZDF->DF4WJ I NR=7 NS=3 pid=Text <11 DB0ZDF>DF4WJ-14 I41^>: 411: S5 P1 : DB0ZDF>DK7WJ 489: S5 U4 P1 : DB0ZDF>DF4WJ 460: S5 U7 P1 : DB0ZDF>DB8PP 493: S7 U7 P1 : DK0MTV>DL8FCK v DB0ZDF* 469: S5 P1 : DB0ZDF>DG7FF 273: S2 P1 : DB0RT-10>DC0HK v DB0ZDF* ---------------00 272: S5 P1 : DD8NE>DC0HK v DB0BBG* ------------------00 uhf recv (Thu Nov 25 22:05:07 1993): AX25: DB0ZDF->DB8PP I NR=0 NS=5 pid=Text G2FBH 10.11.93 19:00 4046 day=313 2line Set #290 glonass.290 55 DG2FBH 10.11.93 19:01 4681 day=313 2line Set #290 gorizont.290 56 DG2FBH 10.11.93 19:02 5586 day=313 2line Set #290 gps.290 <11 DF4WJ-14>DB0ZDF I34^>: k 273 --------------------------00 <11 DB0ZDF>DF4WJ-14 I53^>: => <11 DF4WJ-14>DB0ZDF I45^>: k 272 --------------------------00 <11 DB0ZDF>DB0RPL SABM+> <11 DB0ZDF>DF4WJ-14 I64^>: => The above trace is repeated nonstop now for the past 3 days.! and the sysop is still attempting to stop TCPIP in this area. but the PC allways wins HI. NOTE: the ---00 these mark the points where sysop of DB0ZDF kills the VC for the tcpip ccts on the network. here is a list of db0... bbs that support tcpip 44.130.0.9 db0dj.test 44.130.0.10 db0hb.test 44.130.0.100 db0sef 44.130.0.200 db0hhs 44.130.1.100 db0hhn 44.130.4.1 db0oq 44.130.5.1 db0hes 44.130.8.100 db0acm 44.130.9.2 db0fc 44.130.9.15 db0abz 44.130.9.16 db0dni 44.130.11.26 db0cel-2 44.130.11.100 db0ner 44.130.13.100 db0uhi 44.130.13.200 db0war 44.130.14.20 db0kg 44.130.15.2 db0hsk 44.130.15.4 db0hsk-2 44.130.16.10 db0bq 44.130.17.111 db0hag 44.130.18.30 db0dv 44.130.18.100 db0qs 44.130.18.101 db0qs-svr 44.130.18.102 db0qs-mail 44.130.20.5 db0pra-5 44.130.20.50 db0pra 44.130.20.51 db0pra-9 44.130.20.78 db0bm 44.130.21.64 db0ghh 44.130.21.128 db0net-8 44.130.22.22 db0msc 44.130.22.44 db0msc-svr 44.130.23.1 db0mkn 44.130.24.30 db0tcp 44.130.27.80 db0eam 44.130.27.90 db0vfk 44.130.27.100 db0kh 44.130.29.1 db0rot-c 44.130.29.5 db0ie-u 44.130.29.18 db0rot 44.130.34.1 db0nws 44.130.41.8 db0cpu 44.130.41.64 db0aac 44.130.41.65 db0aac-svr 44.130.41.86 db0dig-11 44.130.41.89 db0dig-12 44.130.42.3 db0lj 44.130.48.3 db0sao 44.130.48.10 db0id 44.130.48.36 db0pig 44.130.48.60 db0aaa-1 44.130.48.61 db0aaa 44.130.48.64 db0aau 44.130.48.65 db0sao-u 44.130.48.66 db0id-u 44.130.48.123 db0adf 44.130.48.143 db0adf-u 44.130.48.244 db0wan 44.130.56.4 db0mwe 44.130.56.5 db0lan 44.130.56.25 db0pv 44.130.56.53 db0ffb 44.130.56.56 db0uni 44.130.56.100 db0mfg 44.130.56.111 db0mws 44.130.58.1 db0zka 44.130.58.2 db0zka-test 44.130.59.21 db0ev 44.130.60.25 db0ova 44.130.60.100 db0rt 44.130.60.101 db0rt-test ftp.db0rt 44.130.63.100 db0aja So haveing read the list, it can be clearly seen that TCPIP is on the increase generally in germany.! So why is DF4WJ on a personal crusade to stop TCPIP on DB0ZDF.? In the past 4 years i have been BANNED fro local BBS's Banned from local digis, sent abusive letters! Threatend by powerless non tcpip users to have my License removed Hi Hi.. [thats a good one] and even called up on the telephone in the night [my fax/modem loves it] read the posting containg a trace on db0zdf>df4wj killing Virtual Circuits thats only a small trace i have it traced on 70cm 23cm and via other digis as we all know that a node-op and can login from any other node as a sysop My thoughts on all this is Im Glad im not permanently liveing in Germany.! and haveing lived in many places and countries i find that in particular the Rhine Mainz area of Germany the most HOSTILE place, and i feel sorry for the HAM Operators that have to by their own choice have to live there. Flame on. Barry.. there will be more, -- Barry Titmarsh GM8SAU sysop GB7SAU Scotland. btitmars@esoc.bitnet dc0hk@db0lj g8sau@db0lj -- ------------------------------ End of TCP-Group Digest V93 #307 ****************************** ------------------------------ End of TCP-Group Digest V93 #308 ****************************** ******************************